Take time for yourself, I don't think anyone's going to blame you for that. And honestly, I don't have any issues with the current state of Kbin, there's a couple bugs here and there but it's entirely usable otherwise. Finally, I think giving yourself a deadline to resolve personal issues might be counterproductive and make you more stressed than you should be. It sounds like you're already taking steps to help spread the workload around, I would just keep spending a little bit of time helping out the team do some stuff you can't do until you're able to get a better work life balance or something.
I guess I'm trying to say, things are great to me and I imagine you're getting that unfortunate side effect of only having people who have something to complain about reach out whereas everyone who has everything going well isn't saying anything. So, in my opinion, you can stay to course (as long as it isn't killing you mentally) and I don't think the site is suffering any for it.
If I can't meet the deadline, I will step down from leading the project and transfer full rights over the repository and instance to the contributors.
I respect you entirely but this is a bit dramatic. Not all projects can be on time due to complications and no one is asking you to step down. Please just do what is necessary - you're doing fantastic!
Everybody says that, but that's not really practical. It would be much better to merge those features into the main project, than to fork it and get stuck maintaining a separate codebase in perpetuity.
Now I will say that if someone thinks they can do a better job, they should sign up for the project and commit their changes to the main project, so all ernest has to do is approve it, rather than write it himself.
oh, i totally agree with your points and i think most of us are already doing that... i was being borderline sarcastic. now, that said, i have no knowledge of what prompted this as a possible resolution by @ernest and it's none of my business, but i can take an educated guess at the calibre of individual(s) that prompted this as a solution. sometimes you have to be a hard-ass if you want to maintain quality and vision (cough mr torvalds) and @ernest has made it clear he's too nice. :-)
Yeah, there is no need for "final solution" style accountability here. This was a project that a single developer was working on when the stars just happened to align and drive a lot of attention to it at once. A commercially oriented website in the same situation would struggle to deal with it and be forced to take out loans in order to expand staffing and infrastructure capacity.
The phrasing of Ernest's initial post suggests that there is at least one exploitable vulnerability that spammers are taking advantage of and can't be openly discussed until the gates are closed. I understand the frustration and optics problem that comes with "easy and important fixes" sliding on the schedule (i.e. the topic of the other thread), but look at it this way:
Ernest is too slammed with work to be consciously creating more work for himself.
He needs the spam and bot problem to go away so ASAP so that it stops taking time away from him. This includes the missing moderation tools, spam/bot campaigns that are operating at a scale that those additional tools would have difficulty addressing regardless, and the issues he can't talk about yet that were hinted at above.
If he is waiting to push out a fix to problems that would greatly reduce his workload, there are very good reasons for it.
If he is not able to push out fixes that reduce his workload, it stands to reason that fixes unrelated to them are also sliding.
I've already discussed some of the reasons on Matrix, but today, I'll try to briefly explain what's going on here. Due to the increasing popularity of kbin, infrastructure changes, the cost of maintaining instances, and development-related priorities, I wasn't able to deliver the milestones on time, which are crucial for project funding (even though I'm really close to achieving that). I wasn't prepared for this and didn't anticipate such a delay in terms of the savings I allocated for all of this. The servers are still being maintained with the donations that came through buymycoffe, but there are additional costs like living expenses and other obligations. So, I had to take up temporary work to ensure the continued development of the project.
This year has also brought many other unexpected personal problems, as I mentioned earlier. Now, another one has been added to that list – I had to end my marriage and a fifteen-year-long relationship. While it's not a sudden decision, it's never easy, but it has turned out to be more challenging than I anticipated. Not just for me, and this time, I want to dedicate as much time as necessary to conclude the matter properly. I had to learn how to do many things from scratch, set up a new work environment, establish daily routines, and more.
So, why all these deadlines and promises?
It was probably the only way for me to accomplish at least the absolute minimum. There's a lot of my own code waiting for review on my local branches, but it's genuinely hard for me to push myself to it for now. The infrastructure also requires fine-tuning, and Piotr is helping me with that. And the days are passing by very quickly.
However, I'm almost ready to continue on this journey, so you can expect that in the near future, there will be a banner with information and the update date of the instance and release. After that, we will work on avoiding such longer development downtimes in case of my absence.
Sounds like a lot of personal problems, wish you all the best with them!
Regarding the funding, do you think you can set up an alternative way of donating that accepts other payment options like PayPal? Personally I'm not using a credit card, which is the only payment option one can use on your buymeacoffee.
Oh, it seems to support PayPal only when the recipient uses PayPal as the payment processor. Is what the FAQ says. In which case PayPal is required, not just an option. TIL
Yeah, It's true. Since Sunday, I've been noting errors that I'm still working on resolving. It doesn't make it easier that it's the post-holiday period, and due to travels and security measures, it's not the easiest task. I'm working to get everything back to normal as soon as possible.
Thanks for putting in all this work, especially over a period that's traditionally vacation time. Make sure you're striking a good work/life balance, if you can get the site basically functional (as it appears to be now) don't sweat the small stuff. :)
Not just me eh, sorry to hear! I had a Jellyfin upgrade go sideways (my fault) once during the holidays and that was bad enough - and all my users live with me! Sorry that you are pulling your hair out, and personally I'm more than content to wait it out until after your vacation.
I'm curious, 2hen you say "on-site work", do you mean you need to travel onsite to do some work for kbin? At a host somewhere? Otherwise, when you say "security measures" for travel, how is that related? Maybe you just mean you are travelling and it is taking up your time...?
Hey, I will get back to this thread and the comments at the beginning of next week. I am able to quickly address some of the issues you mentioned in your post. Changes will undoubtedly be implemented gradually, but for now, the redesign of the ActivityPub module takes higher priority. Once that is completed, the development of the frontend part of the platfrom will truly pick up pace.
Additionally, the suspension of other work was a conscious decision on my part. I believe that the code at this stage needs to be deeply refactored, and that's exactly what I am doing. Solid foundations are the only option for the project to survive and grow in the long term, and to be properly scalable. Adding more blocks to what I have always considered a prototype (which forks do) makes no sense to me.
Hi @piotrsikora. Great to see that kbin is responsive again and returning to usability. If possible, could you please give an update on what is going on currently with federation? It looks like some things are getting through (e.g. I can see this thread on reddthat) but threads from most lemmy instances are not showing up in a timely way in /newest still and at a quick glance it looks like communities in my collections are maybe a half day behind -- with many threads from the past week or more missing entirely.
I'm assuming some of that may be on the lemmy side -- 0.19 has a major issue with sequential message distribution as seen with lemmy.world <-> reddthat.com federation (see this bug report and this comment if you're unfamiliar) -- but it'd be best to hear from someone who has access to the infrastructure about what's going on rather than guessing.
In particular, it'd be helpful to know:
What kind of delay should we expect for threads and comments we create here to show up on Lemmy communities?
What kind of delay should we expect for threads and comments other people create on Lemmy/mbin/etc. instances to show up here? (Obviously this may vary from instance to instance, but in general are things cleared up now on the kbin side for receiving new threads quickly?)
Are comment notifications still delayed from local kbin replies -- or has that been fixed with the infrastructure changes?
Are federated upvotes propagating quickly? (It is very discouraging if you post something and it gets no interaction at all -- knowing if there's federation delay in upvotes would help with distinguishing between "no one saw this", "no one liked this", and "people probably saw it and maybe liked it but the response hasn't made it to kbin yet")
Is federation still playing catch up and old missing threads/comments will be backfilled eventually, or have they been dropped to get things back in working order?
Have any major instances defederated with kbin.social during the recent problems?
Also, should we @ you in addition to @ernest if we encounter problems on kbin.social?
@e0qdk
I can only check federation with our mastodon server (pol.social), and now is very quickly (about seconds).
Queue on kbin.social is empty, so everything should work instant. Maybe lemmy.world add some limitation due to problem with kbin.social.
Feel free to add if you encounter some problems with infrastructure ;)
There was a bug with KBin some days ago where it would send huge amounts of federation activities to Lemmy instances which would overload them. To mitigate this, lemmy.world and some other instances had to block kbin.social. I believe the .world admins tried to get in contact with @ernest. You can read some more details here.
I would also suggest that you and Ernest join the Lemmy Admin chat on Matrix where this problem was found and discussed.
Thank you @ernest for all you do and all you have done!
Absolutely do not want to see you run yourself into the ground over kbin matters, your family and your health come first.
I don't question your judgement, but I think the "step down" bit is a bit extreme, even if you fail to meet the deadline. Worst case, maybe let the community appoint a second-in-command temporarily to get some things moving along while you take a well deserved break?
Agreed, stepping down is a bit heavy handed. There are a lot of moving parts, it's okay to take time for your self and let others take up the reigns temporarily if you need to. I've seen quite a lot of merges on the core recently - so it's obvious things are moving in the right direction.
I've given myself a deadline to resolve all my issues and release the first official version by the end of September. If I can't meet the deadline, I will step down from leading the project and transfer full rights over the repository and instance to the contributors.
Ernest, please don't be so hard on yourself. Deadlines slip, even for products formally released by companies, and this is more of a hobby frankly. I think what might help is less of a deadline and more of a roadmap - like, here are the major bullet point items we want to target for release by end of 2023, by end of Q1 2024, and sometimes those slip but then the roadmap can be revised.
I've been updating my own kbin instance pretty regularly, every couple of weeks, and I've seen things become more stable over time (less frustrations in upgrading, more features, etc). I'm quite happy with the progress so far. This project has grown so much in such a short time, and the fact that the kbin issues matrix is much quieter than it was speaks to the growing stability of the platform.
As far as kbin.social itself, I would agree with some other folks that you might need more volunteers on the actual instance administration and moderation front.
And as far as spam - email, the original federated messaging platform, still has that problem! Each email provider has to handle it on their own, using increasingly sophisticated methods, and they're still not perfect and it's been decades. Yes, spam is frustrating, but due to the nature of ActivityPub we will always be in an escalating war with spam. It will never be solved, only mitigated for a time.
Anyway, perhaps I've written too much here, but I have a ton of confidence in this project and also in you, and I hope you look back and see how much has been accomplished in a short amount of time, how much kbin.social has grown, and how the amount of other contributors indicates an overall great level of confidence in what you've created.
That’s about where I am, honestly. I’m starting to look for alternatives.
I can deal with the site having the occasional problem, but I can’t deal with absolutely no communication at all when things break down. Kbin has gotten too big to be a one-person operation.
This is now the fourth post I’ve seen about people starting to get fed up, and honestly, you know people are starting to hit their limits once people start making posts about their frustrations. I bet a lot of folks have just quietly given up or moved to lemmy or mbin because they’ve gotten frustrated with all the issues.
I’m a pretty patient person and can put up with a lot of goofiness on a site, as long as there’s some kind of communication happening. But there’s none.
I was at that point last week and ended up biting the bullet and migrating my subscriptions over to this account. Really wish there was a first class account migration tool available though.
@stopthatgirl7 Same. I poked around beehaw a bit, but I am not sure its is good fit for me. Think I will check out lemmy.world, they seem to be really communicative on mastodon during their upgrade process.
But that's all I know about it. I am looking into mbin,too...but I really don't much about it.
I have been spending most of my social media time on mastodon lately.
I bet a lot of folks have just quietly given up or moved to lemmy or mbin because they’ve gotten frustrated with all the issues.
I guess it's not quiet once I post this, but I submitted the account deletion request a couple weeks back and spent some time setting my feedly back up after 1 too many spam posts. I'm already getting my scrolling fix from rss feeds again, and this is the first time I've been on kbin in a week.
It doesn't help that whenever this comes up there's a contingent of users who jump to Ernest's "defense" by calling the folks raising these issues "concern trolls" and accusing them of shilling for mbin.
No, this is simply a matter of what is actually working well. The point of federation is that one shouldn't need to have "loyalty" to any particular instance or any particular platform. Use whichever one's working.
Thats not what you describe. Troll is used the way you did in my response to you. A reference to other people trolling in some other threads. Not accusations of the main post being a troll. At least that is the way im reading it. I guess I just assume your first comment was refering to more blatant type posts or replies.
I bet a lot of folks have just quietly given up or moved to lemmy or mbin because they’ve gotten frustrated with all the issues.
I made an alt two months ago when Kbin would never connect. I have barely been back since, so it is now my main. I hoped Kbin would come out if its slump but... that seems unlikely at this point. I'm actually quite happy on Lemmy, especially after the v0.19 upgrade allows blocking of an entire instance. I personally virtually never see any spam (maybe one comment per month) and while connection issues do occur, they are like a handful per week rather than handful per hour (it varies a lot though, sometimes it does get bad for a day or two and then weeks go by without a hitch).
I avoided the initial hurdle of making a Lemmy account for so long and, while it was super annoying, in retrospect it wasn't that bad, compared to all the other problems here and still having to go through all that, eventually.
If anyone is thinking about switching: don't worry unduly about it, just make an account and see if you like it, but you can always keep your Kbin active too, assuming Kbin remains alive.
Also, you may need to try out a few places before you find one that fits you best. But that reduces your anxiety bc you know more and don't need to worry about having to do it again in a worst-case scenario.
Considering his last post was about going to the hospital for a few days, over a month ago, I suspect he's not okay.
Regardless, I just cancelled my $5/mo donation towards the development of the kbin software. Seeing as how there hasn't been any development in over a month.
One of my favorite things about /kbin is that it utilizes threads and microblogs. In my experience thus far, users here seem rather shy. I don't hold it against anyone though, because I totally understand.
Federating content from the likes of Mastodon is very helpful for having discussions trickle in from the fediverse. I think it's also really helpful for establishing an ongoing daily discussion space so the thread feed isn't as cluttered. IMO, there's more potential beyond that, too (Think: drawing everyday for a month, photography-based posting/challenges while using tags for content organization, language-learning exercises, the list goes on...).The combination of threads with microblogs has shown me the power that lies behind content federation. As a result, /kbin is by far my favorite of the fediverse platforms so far.
I still have some minor issues with how it currently works. Currently, I believe the name of a magazine causes hashtags with the exact same string to federate content to that magazine. The magazine that matches the desired hashtag also takes priority, even when the hashtag isn't assigned in the magazine's settings. An issue with this is that if any subsequent magazines try to federate content using that hashtag, it won't be able to do so.
It seems as though microblogs can only federate content to either the magazine that matches the hashtag in question, or the magazine that uses the hashtag first. There's also an issue where a microblog that uses multiple hashtags will only federate content to the magazine with the first available tag. E.g. if someone writes an unused tag for the first, followed by #kbinmeta, then #fediverse third, the post would only go to the kbinmeta microblog section. It would be lovely for microblogs to be federated, or even mirrored across magazines (as in child comments/replies) that implement the same tag. Hopefully, this could also be done without adding excessive overhead to Ernest/the server. Perhaps even offer the ability to have a magazine choose to refuse federating tags that match the magazine's name.
There are also some minor issues with moderation federation, but I don't exactly want to specify here, because I'm worried it could be used maliciously.
That being said, I can't wait to see how /kbin will mature.
Another thing I wish kbin would do, is that while kbin picks up mastodon posts (ie microblogs) - albeit not as seamlessly as would be ideal, as Mr Murdoch points out, it doesn't go the other way. When I post a thread to kbin I always attach relevant hashtags, but my Mastodon account does not pick these up. Mastodon does have the ability to follow kbin users, but not pick up kbin threads based on the thread's hashtags.
I really hope magazines get the ability to detach from hashtags since currently @fediverse and @fediverse seem to be picking up all microblogs that use #fediverse even if said hashtag is used to just refer to fediverse users.
I empathize, as I've spent quite some time trying to learn about content federation trying to manage my own magazines. However, /kbin is younger than its Mastodon/Lemmy counterparts, while trying to provide a unique space that allows for both types of content to exist on the same platform. While there are things that need to be resolved, I'm quite satisfied with the recent update, personally.
While that's definitely a notable downside, I think the upsides outweigh it.
For one, being able to see upvotes & downvotes seems to have made a lot of people a bit more thoughtful with handing them out. This obviously isn't the case for everyone — there's still a good bit of downvoting people for disagreeing with the hivemind — but I and others have observed that downvote quality is a lot better here on kbin.social, and I think that vote visibility is a big part of that.
It's also just transparency on kbin.social's part. If votes federate, anyone can set up an instance to view your votes or just go to one that shows them. Someone could literally make a website listing downvotes throughout the fediverse, and there's nothing stopping them. Kbin.social is being transparent about the fact that votes on the fediverse can be accessed by the public, and I have no issue with that.
Kbin.social is being transparent about the fact that votes* on the fediverse can be accessed by the public
This is important. The kind of petty, persevering trolls that @billothekid2 is worried about are exactly the kind of people who'd be likely to look up who downvoted them.
Kbin just makes it clear to us that this info is out there. Anonymous voting isn't possible in federated social media.
Also, even if they wanted to I don’t think voting could be made anonymous at this point, either. I’m not a programmer in any sense, but I imagine it would totally break federation. Total anonymity would probably need to be a feature from the start.
Kbin at least puts it out there so you know it’s not totally anonymous. Sometimes I wonder how many lemmy users are unaware of this because the software doesn’t make it apparent.
Hmm... I'm no expert, and probably not even competent at these sort of matters, but the thing that popped to my mind was "something something encryption something something trust". I wonder if this has a smart solution.
No. The whole point of Federated software is that things happen on one server, and by the very design of the system those things get shared out to other servers. "Things" could be anything from posts to comments to up/down votes.
The only way to have anonymous voting would be to make the up/down votes strictly local to a particular server, which kind of defeats the purpose of a federated system.
Actually, our downvotes don't federate out, and we don't get incoming downvotes either, so you could totally make them private within an instance since that information doesn't leave the instance anyway.
Not advocating one way or the other, just pointing out that it technically could be an option.
I think it would be possible. The software would just have to record a downvote, saying “we checked out this account and registered one downvote, and everything was valid”. The downvote is only reversible on the original instance the logged in user is on, anyway, and that’s between the user and server. The identity doesn’t have to be displayed to others on the original instance or federated.
Someone could literally make a website listing downvotes throughout the fediverse, and there's nothing stopping them.
This is why I agree that it should be shown upfront. A lot of people won’t like it, but I think users should be somewhat aware that it’s all technically visible.
Someone is gonna make an instance that does exactly this at some point. It will be inevitable as the fediverse matures.
I imagine transferring ownership is a manual process, but on the off chance it's automated, I've requested ownership and intend to delete it right after.
@daredevil hey how did you get rid of it altogether?
I just noticed we had a "frenworld" (copy of a subreddit that was notoriously racist, antisemitic etc) and requested ownership thinking I could delete it but now it's listed as a magazine I mod and I can't seem to either delete it or detatch myself from it. I don't want it listed under mags I mod! Help!
@PugJesus you mean the Delete button? I hit that but all it did was change it to a "Restore" button.
I think this means people get "Empty" when they visit @frenworld. But the racist magazine is still listed on my profile as a magazine I moderate, which is the last thing I want.
Yes, I'm aware of this. The magazine is not publicly listed as a magazine you moderate -- I do not see it listed in your profile. I noticed this problem a little over a week ago. While cleaning up abandoned magazines, I noticed in my profile it still says I have about 70 magazines that I moderate. An issue has already been raised.
Has showed up at the top of my screen among the random mags disproportionately over the past several months too. It's what keeps me off kbin when I'm in the office around people.
This is great. I dont want to request moderation on too many so I just picked a few that I think I could handle and communities I'd like to see developed. (Specifically the manga and bitwig magazine.)
Just a friendly reminder--claiming ownership/moderation privileges could just be a temporary thing. Implementing this system allows us the freedom to share and pass on the responsibility as our situations change. :) Best of luck with @manga and @bitwig.
kbinMeta
Top
This magazine is from a federated server and may be incomplete. Browse more on the original instance.