@livus@kbin.social
@livus@kbin.social avatar

livus

@livus@kbin.social

It's me, livus.

I like to post articles, but I find them myself. I'm a human.

If you like international and eclectic news, come and join me at https://kbin.social/m/worldwithoutus (Link for Lemmy = worldwithoutus or !worldwithoutus).

I've also started helping out at https://kbin.social/m/worldnews and https://kbin.social/m/movies.

This profile is from a federated server and may be incomplete. Browse more on the original instance.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

@FfaerieOxide good catch. Wtf.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

@FfaerieOxide me too. I like it, I love the platform, I don't have an issue with the outages, and I like the way Ernest understands the fediverse.

If there's an outage fine, I just go to another fediverse account til kbin.social comes back. We all have other things in our life, sometimes projects have to take a back seat.

Also I have a lot of sympathy for Ernest wanting to retain control. It's his vision, let's let him do it his way.

Edit: the spam seems to be on mags that have Ernest as sole mod, so that might be an easy fix.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

@FfaerieOxide yes! Well not officially, but after Arotrios had been gone a long time I applied to mod it, mainly as a sort of caretaker/safe pair of hands so that Arotrios will definitely get it back if he returns.

I don't know why/where Arotrios went. I kind of thought he'd be back by now.

[UPDATE] Issues with the functioning of kbin.social (kbin.social)

The main issues with the improper functioning of the instance have been resolved, but it led to additional complications. Currently, using the instance should be quite comfortable, but I will continue to work intensively on a comprehensive solution for the next few days. Therefore, occasional interruptions or errors may still...

livus,
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@ernest thanks, it's wonderful.

livus,
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Honestly @ernest I don't think you have anything to worry about.

It is your platform. Make it at your own pace. Most of us are very happy to be invited on this journey and recognise that there are going to be ups and downs.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

Yeah I don't have most of these issues either (like seeing span tags).

Firefox on android.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

That's so weird, I don't have this problem until p2.

livus,
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I really love vanilla kbin on mobile, it works fine for me!!

I'm using the second light theme, classic view, and have tweaked a lot of the settings.

The only problem is threading gets a bit weird on long threads sometimes.

I checked it on Chrome (ugh) and it's better on Firefox though.

Damaskox, to kbinMeta
@Damaskox@kbin.social avatar

Anyone else not being able to find their comment in a thread?
I have a notification of two replies but I cannot find even my own comment let alone their replies.

#kbinMeta

livus,
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@Damaskox usually happens if it's not on p1. Until Ernest fixes it, try sorting by old and find in page your own username.

livus,
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@Gamers_Mate another one now called @bekecot spamming the same stuff in what looks like Hungarian.

I'm starting to see some serious downsides to being able to see who downvotes you. (kbin.social)

A few days ago I downvoted someone's comment, and the next day I happened to notice every single comment I've ever made had at least one downvote. All from the person I dared to downvote the ONE time. I straight up asked why they did it, and they seem to think I'm an "obvious" troll account that "apparently just exist to...

livus, (edited )
@livus@kbin.social avatar

@billothekid2 I'm with @FaceDeer on this, it's way better to know you have a Downvote Fairy than to just think no one appreciates your comments.

Back on reddit it happens a lot, but the targets are more likely to feel discouraged or think the person they are replying to is the one downvoting them.

Besides, I had someone doing this to me here on kbin for a couple of days and they are not someone I ever downvoted or had even argued with.

I asked them to stop and they downvoted me one last time and then stopped. I don't think they'd realized I can see them.

So the cause isn't that people can see your downvotes, it's that some people are just dicks.

livus,
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@magnetosphere but trolls stalk people anyway, I've had Downvote Fairies on reddit and kbin.

The kbin one wasn't even someone I'd downvoted.

livus,
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@billothekid2 honestly, it's not an uncommon phenomenon, it has nothing to do with seeing your downvotes.

Over the years on reddit, where votes are anonymous, I would sometimes notice all my comments being downvoted (usually after some kind of altercation, my favourite was the guy who singled me out for criticizing Margaret Thatcher... hardly a hot take).

In fact iirc reddit had to change its interface so that voting on comments from a person's profile page doesn't change their comment count.

Some people are just petty. I think it's better to at least know when it's happening so I can avoid that person.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

@FaceDeer the super annoying thing on reddit would be when I was having a polite discussion with someone and a third party came along and silently downvoted everything they said to me.

Then they'd get all annoyed assuming it was me who did it.

livus,
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@ThatOneKirbyMain2568

Kbin.social is being transparent about the fact that votes* on the fediverse can be accessed by the public

This is important. The kind of petty, persevering trolls that @billothekid2 is worried about are exactly the kind of people who'd be likely to look up who downvoted them.

Kbin just makes it clear to us that this info is out there. Anonymous voting isn't possible in federated social media.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

@magnetosphere just the nature of the internet.

Sometimes people get weird bees in their bonnet. Personally I'd much rather know who it's coming from.

If I put a lot of effort into a comment or post and it gets downvoted by someone out of spite, I'd much rather know that's what happened than sit there wondering what's wrong with my post.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

@FaceDeer interesting, wonder if it was the same person!

The other thing that hasn't bern mentioned yet is vote manipulation is easy to spot on kbin.

When reddit first migrated here I remember someone being called out for having 3 or 4 profiles upvote/downvote all the same things.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

@billothekid2 this exchange raises another point. You and @snooggums downvoting each other here seem to be engaging in "downvote-to-disagree" with each other.

I don't see nearly as much of this on kbin as I do on, say, lemmy.world and I'm sure it's because of our more transparent voting system.

I'm personally not a fan because I think it's vaguely hostile and discourages open discussion.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

@FaceDeer yeah that secret downvoting thing was super passive-aggressive.

What was most annoying about blocks was that bug where you couldn't reply to anyone downthread of a comment by the person who blocked you, so they could effectively end your other conversations with other people.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

The way I see it, downvotes = "I wish this comment didn't exist" and doing it to punish someone for having a discussion with us is weird, since social media is all about discussions, and exchanging disagreeing points of view is interesting.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

Fair enough. I think my dick threshold is pretty high, they have to be spamming or griefing or something like that.

livus,
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@magnetosphere this! I love it when someone points out stuff I haven't considered, especially if it turns out I'm wrong. Acknowleding that is the fastest way to actually turn it around and become right again.

livus,
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@OpenStars totally!

I originally only came here for something to do during the blackout, but it's just so much better here that I ended up never going back.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

@billothekid2 I just thought of another aspect.

On reddit about 8 years ago there was a bunch of discussion of how people were running automated scripts to downvote everything by people they didn't like or whatever.

And reddit had to build in a safeguard so those automated script downvotes no longer counted. Those kinds of shenannigans would be much easier to spot in kbin's current system.

livus,
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@CoffeeAddict yeah it's made me very responsible about downvoting.

It has also made me more inclined to discuss things because now I don't just lazily "downvote to disagree" and move on.

Also, when someone weird starts following me around and downvoting all my posts, I can see who it is so it doesn't bother me.

It's way better than sitting there thinking "what did I do wrong".

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

If a lot of people outside of your instance think you made a bad comment but few inside your instance do, limited downvote federation creates an inaccurate representation of what people think.

But we're cooler than anyone else. :P

It's much more important to me to know what kbin thinks about my comment, than it is to know what the aggregate of kbin+hexbear or kbin+lemmy.world thinks.

And if you do want to know you just hit view on original instance and see all the votes.

livus,
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I mean beehaw has no downvotes and they're not toxic at all if viewed from within their instance.

livus,
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@ernest

Personally I like the current system because:

  1. We on kbin have not developed a knee-jerk "downvote everything I disagree with" behaviour that reddit had and lemmy.world is starting to have.

I think this is because we can see each other's downvotes and so we use them more responsibly. People from other instances don't have that so they behave differently.

Downvote-to-disagree has an offputting effect on discussion and creates echo chambers.

  1. Not federating downvotes from much bigger instances allows us to develop our own culture here on kbin without it being buried in an avalanche from elsewhere.

Brigading from places like hexbear doesn't really affect us.

I'd prefer that kbin communities continue to develop based on the ethos of the people here, rather than potentially having our upvotes cancelled out by downvotes from a larger instance.

livus,
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@ThatOneKirbyMain2568

(B) similar expressions from other instances aren't drowned out.

Some other instances are so much bigger than ours though. The "drowning out" will likely come the other way.

I don't have time to go through and find it right now but somewhere in my comments is screenshots of the difference in voting patterns on a comment thread (it happened to be one where someone was saying kbin is mostly trolls, so it was polarizing).

Kbin had voted in a completely different way to the lemmy, but because they were so much bigger than us, the aggregate would have looked like lemmy was the consensus.

Part of the appeal of an instance for me is its culture. It's hard to develop that when we risk being drowned out.

livus,
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@CoffeeAddict

Right now, the fediverse is pretty small and Kbin is actually the most welcoming instance I have found so far. I am not sure if the lack of downvote federation has anything to do with this, but so far I actually like it.

Me too. I'm with you on this, I find our current voting culture way better and more welcoming than most of the lemmys.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

people who are arbitrarily on my instance

I don't think instance membership is all that arbitrary. I'm on kbin.social not hexbear or beehaw or lemmy.world for good reason, and it's not only because kbin is technically better.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

@ThatOneKirbyMain2568

If we don't federate downvotes, I think we'd be better off just ditching downvotes entirely and instead having something more conducive to how we want instant negative feedback to be used.

This would be my second preference.

livus,
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@HeartyBeast that brings back memories...

livus,
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@ThatOneKirbyMain2568 like I said, it's my second preference.

If you're asking why it's not my first choice, the answer's partly that I'm happy with the status quo for reasons I've already gone into, and partly pragmatism.

@ernest has a really long to-do list and figuring out how to implement it in a way that wouldn't undermine the report button or do something crazy e.g to reputation is probably not the best use of his time right now.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

@CoffeeAddict I might be wrong but I think boosts are more important when we interact with Mastodon?

What are your thoughts on Microblogs vs threads? (kbin.social)

When I first joined Kbin I posted threads due to being a reddit refugee but have started posting microblogs as time went on. I have also noticed some magazines have more threads while others have more microblog posts. For example kbinmeta has more threads while the most active magazine I moderate has mostly microblogs.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

I really love it. Thanks to microblogs sections of magazines, I'm now getting plenty of mastodon content and even following some mastodon people despite not having a mastodon account.

To those genuinely interested in moderating (kbin.social)

@Ernest has pushed an update which allows users to request ownership/moderation of abandoned magazines. Ghost/abandoned magazines were fairly prevalent after the initial wave of hype due to users either squatting magazine names or becoming inactive for other reasons. Now is your chance to get involved, if you were waiting to do...

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

@daredevil hey how did you get rid of it altogether?

I just noticed we had a "frenworld" (copy of a subreddit that was notoriously racist, antisemitic etc) and requested ownership thinking I could delete it but now it's listed as a magazine I mod and I can't seem to either delete it or detatch myself from it. I don't want it listed under mags I mod! Help!

@Ernest @ernest @PugJesus

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

@PugJesus you mean the Delete button? I hit that but all it did was change it to a "Restore" button.

I think this means people get "Empty" when they visit @frenworld. But the racist magazine is still listed on my profile as a magazine I moderate, which is the last thing I want.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

@daredevil sorry, I should have updated. I messaged Ernest and he took took it off my profile.

I didn't realise it was a known issue, I thought I was just glitching, sinci it hadn't happened to @PugJesus.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

@LeGaosaure I don't think that we have cross-platform moderation yet but I'm pretty sure I saw @ernest say it will come.

In the meantime, you could always create a backup account over here and request ownership that way.

livus,
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@LeGaosaure definitely, and that way you can create guidelines for posting. My tiny community worldwithoutus has barely needed any moderation so far!

livus,
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@LeGaosaure good luck with it. Is it LimbusCompany? I don't actually know what that is, but I've subscribed so I can upvote you.

livus, (edited )
@livus@kbin.social avatar

I like it being at the bottom. That way you get fewer people coming in to all say the exact same thing without interacting with each other.

It's sort of like the design is "listen before you speak."

livus,
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Excellent. The future is federated.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

Good article, this person federates.

I don't get why the author seems to be saying we can't see lists of lemmy communities from kbin, though.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

Off topic but I just love your name/image so much!

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

Well, it's magical! It reminds me slightly of the forest spirit in Princess Mononoke but way more striking. Strange how these things come into being.

I really need to get a proper avatar. I just grabbed the first thing I saw that was the right size from my image folder.

Edit: omg those images are all fantastic. You can have a whole FaceDeer empire.

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