More visible promotion of active magazines would go a long way too. Almost every suggested magazine across the top of my nav bar is an empty ghost community, probably made on a whim during the Reddit kerfuffle and then abandoned.
It also feels bad when me and one other person are the only active people in a community and I’ve already advertised. I want to advertise again but don’t want to come off as an annoying spammer.
I’m taking the risk I’ll be annoying—I’m specifically referring to https://kbin.social/m/Musicals (@musicals or musicals@kbin.social in case the link does not work for you—kbin has been having a bug that makes !communityName@instance links like the one I just wrote not always federate out properly from kbin).
Very good point. I understand the desire to give all communities equal opportunity to be promoted, but if the promotions are towards dead-ends, it really does a disservice to the fediverse as a whole
Let's put it this way: Just because they live under an oppressive regime doesn't mean we should be mean to them and keep them isolated in their evil bubble.
Say, many would agree that Han people in China are oppressed. They have a ton of middle-class citizens who are free to leave the country, they just don't want to permanently due to not thinking it'd be better.
Same applies to Threads, though maybe a stronger case for leaving.
I’m not having a conversation that compares people signing up to their favourite social media channel with people who suffer systemic discrimination every day in their lives.
I mean, you know they aren't going to have adequate content moderation because they ALREADY don't. Lack of moderation is the #1, #2, and #3 best reasons to defederate.
Wanting to see proof before taking positive action is valid and sensible. But you can't pretend it isn't something you can already make reasonable inferences about. This is not a new unknown and pretending it is is ridiculous.
Email servers do not automatically feed content into and pull content out of your system. They only send and deliver to specific people at specific addresses. Federation is a firehose. You can close the hydrant before or after it gets hooked up to city water, but at the end of the day only people that chose to do things the sensible way will have dry socks and no water damage.
this is just not true, sorry. instances only retrieve/pushed specified actions/actors. . pretending it is is ridiculous. this is now a new unknown, this is how the ap protocol works.
and your shit is already public, if they want to suck it all in there is literally nothing stopping them right now. federation or not.
Like I linked in the OP post, the problem isn't their implementation of the protocol, but what FB is, and what it has done; and it probably would not stop doing it in the Fediverse. If Hannnibal Lecter moved in the neighbourhood I wouldn't answer his dinner invite, just to see what's on the menu.
whatever. i hate facebook, i dont use their crap. but im not going out of my way to block their AP protocol any more than i would their SMTP protocol.
when their activity in a specific context demonstrably, negatively affects my system, ill take action as i would any negative impact from any protocol on any of my services.
when i get a spammer, i block them. but again, im not going out of my way to spite some big asshole company, and potentially lose out on coordinating an offramp for those trapped in its walls.
everyone here as proven one thing: there is no technical reason to block threads. its entirely political/moral/spite and a lot of 'maybes'.
If a Mastodon instance was run by someone who allowed a genocide to be fuelled by their platform, and earn money from the advertising, I think we'd defederate in a heart beat. It just doesn't seem consistent to federate with them.
Yup! Unfortunately the activity seems to be going to the lemmy side of things first, due to kbin’s sometimes functional, sometimes kinda-functional federation.
Yeah. I created a thread recently that had over a hundred replies, but over time, each notification became a frustration because the notification link doesn't take me to the actual comment, just the first page. I'm not sifting through 10 pages to read an entire comment and see if it warrants a reply.
Experiencing the same "amazing UI but frustration experience that makes me check out" UX w/ firefish (fka calckey) as well.
I agree, this is a wild reactionary shift to the issues they’ve seen with kbin. Unless the community “consensus” includes people actually reviewing and testing this is just going to put the repo admins in a tough situation when they have to merge in some broken commit the community voted on.
1 part 'Meta users 'already have' an account so getting into it is easy', mixed with 1 part 'The slightest possibility of inconvenience (like having to choose a Mastodon server) acts as a deterrent to most people when alternative means are available'.
It's time to start posting links to our own blogs, again. Reddit brainwashed us into thinking that "self advertisement" was a bad thing. What they actually wanted you to do was instead turn your content into text posts on reddit itself so that we'd get locked into the platform.
Self advertise. Write interesting things on your blog and then share your posts here.
Yes I always thought Reddit’s rules against self promotion were pretty dumb. Like how did Reddit want people to find out about cool new things that Redditors make? From other news sources and then post to Reddit afterwards? That makes no sense and just means Reddit is the last place to find out about the cool thing that the Redditor made.
Now with Lemmy and KBin we have the chance to self promote again, and we need more posts anyways.
Eh those rules seem dumb and are in some ways... but as someone who moderated a roughly 200 and 250k subscriber subreddits for around 6-7 years, I can say from experience that an insane amount of people just tried using the platform to shotgun links to their bullshit youtube channels or content mill tech blogs.
You'd see one of those links, look at their profile and sure enough they just had a huge list of them firing off the same link to 10-20 subreddits, then the next link, then the next. No discussion, no commenting history in those subreddits for the most part. They were just using them as a way to get clicks and nothing more.
Left unchecked, that shit destroys the quality of a community. I know because the first big sub I grew from about 10k to 250k had been left open to that stuff for years and had totally stagnated. As soon as I started cleaning house the place blew up in numbers and quality of content.
The vast, vast majority of people linking their own off-site content on reddit (in my experience as a mod) was definitely people just spamming. And if you let them do it the subreddits go to hell.
I've been blogging since 1997 and prefer to write things on my own site, but yeah, the sort of "rule" on Reddit was to not link to your own blog. I disabled Google Analytics this year, and it should also be free of any ads, so I feel okay about linking to my own (long) posts about stuff, complete with plenty of photos and the occasional video, but I'm still not sure if that is frowned upon as "self promotion" even on the Fediverse...
My counter-argument is a small minority create content and a much smaller minority of them actually create interesting/engaging content.
I'm not opposed to a 'blogs' magazine where people share their own content, but from my personal perspective, self-promotion often skews the OP's ability gauge's the outside world's interest in their musings about the world.
and if the content is not interesting, it falls by the wayside with no votes. the creme rises, the cruft falls. with more volume, your will get more cruft, but also more creme.
reddit gets tons of spam and absolute garbage posts, but the volume and user voting brings good stuff out.
there will be some shitty blogs, but i think that's an ok price to pay for more content being posted.
@inkican - Agreed - Kbin will live or die based on its content. One thing that should be mentioned to those on the fence about contributing is how powerful Kbin is as a publishing platform in comparison to either Mastodon or Lemmy - this is one of the few places where you can post and get your content on both style of instances.
There are a couple of factors degrading contribution that could be alleviated by more stringent moderation - particularly the bot networks and downvote spammers. I've seen a couple of instances where folks have gotten bullied out of trying to run a forum, and Kbin's flaws in blocking (a blocked user can still downvote your posts and message you), make ongoing harassment an issue for contributors. No one wants to submit something to have it shat upon.
The other factor is that a number of users set up magazines, grabbing popular names from Reddit, then did nothing to maintain them. I think removing or reassigning these ghost magazines to interested moderators would go a long way in improving the content quality here now that the dust has settled from the Reddit collapse.
From a moderator standpoint, if you're looking to expand the reach of your magazine and get new subscribers (and thus, hopefully, more contributors), one thing I've found that helps expand the audience is using a Lemmy account to crosspost, as the cross-posting functionality is built into that architecture and provides a link back to the original. This both expands the range of the content, and draws subscribers from Lemmy that normally wouldn't see you on Kbin to subscribe to your magazine. Mastodon is similar - a single supportive account there boosting magazine content expands your reach dramatically.
Side note: I run @13thFloor and wanted to say if you or your users ever feel like cross-posting our scifi content from there, or cross-posting your content to our magazine, feel free to do so - we fucking love scifi over here.
For those having issues with the aforementioned downvote trolls, @some_guy and @YourContentSucks kindly showed up to illustrate the problem. These two accounts are accompanied by a third, @cre0 -all the same user. If you're pre-emptively looking to protect your users from downvote spam, keep these accounts out of your magazines - he likes to try to dox folks. This is his theme song.
Big takeaways, emphasis preserved from the original:
Threads is entering a space in the fediverse which is dominated by Mastodon, so it's Mastodon and other fediverse microblogging services (including, to some extent, /kbin) which will most heavily feel the impact of Threads.
Defederating another server means your instance will stop requesting content from that server. ... Defederation is about what data comes in, not what goes out. ... Defederation doesn't make you invisible, it doesn't block anybody else from seeing you, it doesn't protect your content, it only means you never have to see their content.
Firstly, the fediverse is a drop in the ocean compared to Threads (104 million registered users). Obviously, Meta wants everybody, but their specific goals in terms of user-poaching are far more likely to center around the ~350 million active Twitter users than the ~12 million fediverse users (~3.5 million active). The threadiverse [Lemmy, Kbin, et al] is smaller again, at something like 100,000 active users.
"Threads will overwhelm the fediverse with their inferior content and culture." Like the EEE fears, this one is legitimate but once again something that will primarily be felt by microblogging providers (/kbin included). Toxic users, advertisers, etc. can push garbage into feeds all day, but they will largely not be targeting the threadiverse because there's some 100 million sets of eyes to put that crap in front of on the microblogging side and it will be difficult-to-impossible for them to push that content into Lemmy/kbin threads from their interface that was never made to interact with the threadiverse.
Is there any chance Meta has good intentions?No. But it might have intentions that are both self-serving and fediverse-neutral. The absolute best intention I can possibly ascribe to Meta is that joining the fediverse is a CYA (cover your ass) mechanism to head off regulations, especially in the EU, [e.g.] the newly-applicable Digital Markets Act ...
Defederation is about what an instance allows in, not what an instance allows out. Defederation stops you seeing the defederated instance's content, but it does not stop them seeing your instance's content.
Threads poses some danger to the fediverse, in particular the portion of it centered around microblogging (mostly Mastodon, but also Pleroma, parts of /kbin, etc.), but very little risk to the threadiverse.
The worst thing about the fediverse is all the fondue, but you don't have to eat it.
Emphasis from the original post.
This is a detailed summary, thank you for linking.
I have also read some other POVs here; my fears are not totally allayed and I still think Meta is only engaing with Activity Pub to prevent new, potential competitors arising from it.
I hope the OP is right about it being very little risk to the Threadiverse. The good news is that Threads is focused enitrely on microblogging and not the Threadiverse. Perhaps that means Kbin and Lemmy users will be able to sit on the sidelines and see how it plays out for a bit, idk. Mastodon users will be seeing the most change.
The issue is that this does affect Kbin because Kbin is a microblogging platform. It's also a thread aggregator, but it has microblog functionality that some people do actually use. Should we not defederate, stuff from Threads will flood the microblogs of Kbin. If your home page is set to use the All Content feed (like mine is), you'll see microblogs from Threads there. This doesn't have as much of an effect as it does on a purely microblogging-focused platform like Mastodon, but it does still affect a big way that Kbin is used.
Right, and that’s part of why I remain a skeptic. Kbin’s microblog being overtaken by Thread’s content could very well limit kbin’s growth and viability as a microblogging platform - especially if Meta pulls the plug later.
But, I have also seen the opinion that not having Threads content could make kbin unappealing as a microblogging platform. (I’m not sure if I agree with this, but I have seen it mentioned.)
I guess the questions are, Can Kbin grow with Threads content? And, Will the lack of Threads content make it unappealing to new users?
Also, another problem I think is that kbin might not have the userbase and content yet to be self-sustaining when faced with a goliath company like Meta; if we produced as much content as Threads will (or enough to the point that defederating kbin would hurt Threads) then there wouldn’t be much of a concern.
Idk, Threads is ultimately the one forcing the situation (probably intentionally) where federating with them is risky but also refusing to do so could be self-isolating. I still maintain that they’re doing it now while the fediverse is still young for a reason, and that is so they can grab so much of the “fondue” that everyone comes to them anyway.
I would like to see kbin succeed, and I don’t trust Meta. Whatever kbin decides to do I will be here for it, but I’m definitely a Meta skeptic.
To put my own skin in the game, I quite like the microblogging side of kbin. I like that I can swap between the thread and blog sides, I like that I can combine them into one view if I choose, and I like that I don't need a separate account to use either service. Using kbin's microblog was the first time I ever blogged, period. I'd hate to see that stream be overwhelmed by Threads users.
Exactly one of the reasons why I remain a skeptic.
I don’t want sound too much like I’m complaining about “Eternal September” but I quite like how kbin’s microblog is right now. Having millions of threads users suddenly flood it with random… crap… would change it forever.
I haven’t used instagram in more than half a decade. When I hopped on to see what it was like recently, I hardly recognized it and all the content was completely irrelevant. I would hate to see that happen to the microblog.
I’m a fan of static site generators, but unless I’m missing something, this won’t replace the most important part of Bandcamp: a platform for selling music.
@ono Yeah, fair point. It's more geared towards patron support and donation prompts, but it does support things like redeemable codes, which could be paired with some kind of recurring donation system.
It does make me wonder what it would take to build in a checkout system, and whether that goes way beyond what a static site can handle.
Pull Requests require at least one (1) other maintainer approval before the PR gets merged (built-in peer review process).
The mbin fork happened when kbin development was looking a lot less active. In any case, it's not necessarily bad to have a diversity of approaches. Due to their differing organizational structures, mbin will likely tend to have more features and more rapid development, but also potentially more bugs, while kbin remains more stable.
I cant follow the convo to tell if this is the actual state of things or just something thst was being discussed but:
16 Maintainers MAY merge incorrect patches from other Contributors with the goals of (a) ending fruitless discussions, (b) capturing toxic patches in the historical record, (c) engaging with the Contributor on improving their patch quality.
Maintainers MAY merge incorrect patches from other Contributors with the goals of (a) ending fruitless discussions, (b) capturing toxic patches in the historical record, (c) engaging with the Contributor on improving their patch quality.
I asked around and asked in the C4 specification matrix room.
And the reason is actually simple. If you merge bad code, have a record of proof in git (pull requests aren't forever it's only a github/gitlab thing).
So the idea is if you merge bad code you have proof in the git record that there is a bad actor. You can always revert the commit again or fix it. And the record can act as a proof in case the community want to get rid of bad actors.
I think it’s an interesting experiment. If it survives natural human tendency to mess with things, then it could be a good process discovery that is further refined and implemented elsewhere.
I don’t have any reason to believe it’ll be a success, but that shouldn’t stop people from at least trying.
https://kbin.social/u/ernest is in charge but it seems like he's having serious IRL issues from his most recent comments. Some people appear to have managed to get his attention through Matrix in the recent past but I don't know how to use it.
@can Their Team seem to fix things quite fast, I tested it out myself and have had little to no problems, just very few things on the Kbin.run instance.
fediverse
Top
This magazine is from a federated server and may be incomplete. Browse more on the original instance.