@ernest@kbin.social
@ernest@kbin.social avatar

ernest

@ernest@kbin.social

Working on /kbin
https://fedidb.org/software/kbin

kbin.pub • kbin.social • karab.in
ernest.dev • pixelfed

#php #rustlang

This profile is from a federated server and may be incomplete. Browse more on the original instance.

indieterminacy, to random

I just created a matrix room and kbin magazine concerning wider aspects about #semantic models and understanding in the #fediverse

https://matrix.to/#/#semantic-fediverse:matrix.org
https://kbin.social/m/semantic_fediverse

All backgrounds and technical capabilities welcome

ThatOneKirbyMain2568, (edited ) to fediverse
@ThatOneKirbyMain2568@kbin.social avatar

I've been thinking a bit about this post regarding #Mastodon's responsibility to be compatible with the #threadiverse (#ActivityPub thread aggregators like #Lemmy & #Kbin). Right now, a thread from Lemmy or Kbin usually federates to Mastodon with truncated text and a link to the actual thread. However, many want Mastodon to be more compatible with threads so that the people over on Mastodon interact with the threadiverse more.

I was initially in agreement as a Kbin user. But having given it some thought, I think this is an unwise approach that'll only serve to overcomplicate platforms on the #fediverse. Yes, people on Mastodon should promote other parts of the fediverse (and vice versa), but complete interoperability shouldn't be expected of every platform.

As much as many would like it, you can't have long-form video from PeerTube, images from Pixelfed, threads from Kbin, blogs from Writefreely, etc. all neatly fit in a microblog feed. These are different formats made for different platforms, and the people making them are expecting them to be interacted with in completely different ways. When someone makes a thread in a Lemmy community, they're probably expecting that the people who are going to see and interact with the thread are people that want to see threads and are thus on a Lemmy instance (or another thread aggregator). If someone from Mastodon were to interact with it as if it were a microblog post, there'd be a big mismatch. People interact with microblogs differently than they do with threads — that's why they're separate to begin with. You don't see everyone on Twitter also wanting to use to Reddit because people who want microblogs don't necessarily want Reddit-style threads, and vice versa.

The other option, then, is to separate these different formats into different feeds or otherwise make them clearly distinct from one another. Kbin does this by separating threads and microblog posts into two tabs. While you can view both in the "All Content" tab if you'd like, they're styled differently enough that it's very clear when you're looking at a thread and when you're looking at a microblog post. This distinction lets users treat threads like threads and microblog posts like microblog posts, which is really helpful since the two formats serve different purposes and have different audiences. This option — clear distinction — is a great way to solve the conundrum I've been talking about… if your platform is meant for viewing all these different kinds of content to begin with.

And that's what it really comes down to imo. Mastodon is a platform for microblogging. Most people go to Mastodon because they want a Twitter alternative, not a Twitter alternative that's also an Instagram alternative and a Reddit alternative and a YouTube alternative. Even if you put these different content types in separate tabs, it would inevitably make things seem more confusing and thus raise the barrier of entry. Add a Videos tab to Mastodon to view stuff on PeerTube, and people are inevitably going to go, "Wait, what's this? Is this like YouTube? I thought this was just a Twitter alternative! This all seems too complicated," even if you tell them to ignore it.

It's probably best to leave Mastodon as it is: a microblogging platform that has some limited federation with other formats. The way Kbin threads currently display on Mastodon is fine. In fact, when I post a Kbin thread, I'm expecting it to be viewed via a thread aggregator. If people on Mastodon were part of the target audience, I would've made a microblog post.

Now, if you want to make something that lets you view everything on the fediverse via different tabs, feel free. As aforementioned, Kbin supports both threads and microblogs, though it comes with some challenges (e.g., trying to fit magazine-less microblog posts into Kbin's magazine system). However, this doesn't mean every platform on the fediverse needs to seamlessly incorporate everything else. I'd love people on Mastodon to promote and even try out Lemmy & Kbin more, but that doesn't mean Mastodon needs to also become a thread aggregator.

masimatutu, to random en-gb

Mastodon has the responsibility to promote diversity in the Fediverse

I love the Threadiverse. Compared to the microblogging Fediverse’s sea of random thoughts, Lemmy and kbin are so much easier to navigate with the options to sort posts by subscribed, from local instances or everything federated. You can also sort by individual community, and then there are the countless ways to order the posts and comments (which are stored neatly under the main post, by the way). That people can more easily find the right discussions and see where they can contribute also means that the discussions tend to be more focused and productive than elsewhere. Decentralisation also makes a lot of sense, since it is built around different communities. All that’s needed is users.

Things were going quite well for a while when Reddit killed third-party apps, prompting many to leave and find the Threadiverse. However, it is quite difficult to entertain a crowd that has grown accustomed to a constant bombardment of dopamine-inducing or interesting content by tens of millions of users, if you only have a couple hundred thousand people. This is causing some to leave, which of course increases this effect. The active users have more than halved since July, according to FediDB. The mood is also becoming more tense. Maybe the lack of engagement drives some to cause it through hostility, I’m not quite sure. Either way, the Threadiverse becoming a less enjoyable place to be, which is quite sad considering how promising it is.

But what is really frustrating is that we could easily have that userbase. The entire Fediverse has over ten million users, and many Mastodonians clearly want to engage in group-based discussion, looking at Guppe groups. The focused discussions should also be quite attractive. Technically we are federated, so why do Mastodonians interact so little with the Threadiverse? The main reason is that Mastodon simply doesn’t federate post content. I really can’t see why the platform that federates entire Wordpress blogs refuses to federate thread content just because it has a title, and instead just replaces the body with a link to the post. Very unhelpful.

The same goes with PeerTube. There are plenty of videos on there that I am quite sure a lot of Mastodonians would appreciate, yet both views and likes there stay consistently in the tens. Yes, Mastodon’s web interface has a local video player, but in most clients it is the same link shenanigans, may may partly explain the small amount of engagement. This is also quite sad, because Google’s YouTube is one of the worst social network monopolies out there, if not the worst.

And I know some might say that Mastodon is a microblogging platform and that it makes sense only to have microblogging content, but the problem is that Mastodon is the dominant platform on the Fediverse, its users making up close to 80% of all Fedizens. It has gone so far that several Friendica and Hubzilla users have been complaining about complaints from Mastodonians that their posts do not live up to Mastodon customs, and of course, that people frequently use “Mastodon” to refer to the entire Fediverse. This, of course, goes entirely against the idea of the Fediverse, that many diverse platforms live in harmony with and awareness of each other.

The very least that Mastodon could do is to support the content of other platforms. Then I’d wish that they’d improve discoverability, by for instance adding a videos tab in the explore section, improving federation of favourites since it is the dominant sorting mechanism on many other platforms, and making a clear distinction between people (@person) and groups (!group), but I know that that is quite much to ask.

P.S. @feditips , @FediFollows , I know that you are reluctant to promote Lemmy and its communities because of the ideology of its founders, but the fact is firstly that it’s open source and there aren't any individual people who control the entire project, and that the software itself is very apolitical. In fact, most Lemmy users both oppose and are on instances that have rules against such beliefs, so I highly encourage you to at least help raise awareness on the communities. Then, of course, there’s kbin, which isn’t associated with any extremism at all. As a bonus, it has much better integration with the microblogging Fediverse, but it is a lot smaller and younger, and still very much under development.

Anyways, that was a ramble. Thanks for hearing me out.

@fediverse #fediverse #threadiverse #mastodon #lemmy #kbin

box464, to random
@box464@mastodon.social avatar

So many #fediverse announcements, making my head spin. :pensive_party_blob:

kbin collections, grouping magazines privately or as shared collections

Peertube v6 chapters, scrubbing and password protected videos

Pixelfed official apps in stores by end of year.

Sup, a federated messaging app, initial release by end of year.

Sharkey post imports from a wide array of social sites (and replies to posts for Masto and X)!

MarsEdit includes Mastodon support

Funkwhale groundwork for caching

box464,
@box464@mastodon.social avatar

Kbin
https://kbin.social/m/kbinDevlog/t/668494

PeerTube
https://mastodon.social/@itsfoss/111491982044289947

Pixelfed and Sup
https://mastodon.social/@pixelfed/111493877300463003

Sharkey
https://shonk.social/notes/9mpdftxunohh00k8

MarsEdit
https://redsweater.com/blog/4036/marsedit-5-1-mastodon-support-is-here

Funkwhale
https://social.funkwhale.audio/@funkwhale/111489941518483072

ThatOneKirbyMain2568, to kbinMeta
@ThatOneKirbyMain2568@kbin.social avatar

Another update to my userstyle idkbin (now at 1.2.6.1)! The "new comment" marker recently added by Ernest is now stylized by idkbin (mainly to work with rounded edges), and a bug with borders has been fixed.

EDIT: Typo.

ThatOneKirbyMain2568, to fediverse
@ThatOneKirbyMain2568@kbin.social avatar

I've noticed that a lot of people on the #fediverse aren't particularly welcoming to those who don't initially get it or have trouble with it. You'd think that if multiple people say they have trouble picking an instance, it might be a genuine barrier to entry that we need to consider when introducing them to the fediverse. But no, instead of suggesting an instance to get rid of that barrier everyone gives unhelpful advice like "just pick one" or "it's not that hard." We'd have a much easier time getting people on the fediverse if there weren't so many people with this attitude of "the fediverse is simple, and the people who don't get it are lazy and should try harder."

ThatOneKirbyMain2568,
@ThatOneKirbyMain2568@kbin.social avatar

@wizardbeard I'd argue that telling people to join largest (or at least a larger) instance isn't a bad thing. If I was telling someone to join Kbin, I'd tell them to just pick kbin.social. Later on, once they get accustomed to fediverse and understand the idea better, they can go to a smaller instance if they want
(e.g., if it's focused on a topic you like, it has features or moderation policies you prefer, or you just want to take some load off the larger instance). Having people initially go to larger, more established instances — where the experience tends to be more approachable due to more active hosts, more old content being federated, a larger community within the instance, etc. — greatly reduces the barrier to entry.

And the danger of a lot of people on a single instance is really exaggerated. If things go badly on, say, a Lemmy instance that most people are on, they can just move to another one with the same features, same UI, and similar access to content. It's not like Reddit or Twitter where moving means you're missing out on a ton.

You're right that it's usually better to be the change you want to see as opposed to simply criticizing others, but I think it's still important to discuss how we introduce people to the fediverse.

Pamasich,
@Pamasich@kbin.social avatar

boosts

Boosts are originally Mastodon's version of Twitter's retweets. By boosting a post, you share it with your followers.

Behind the scenes, this is how they're implemented on kbin too right now. Though it seems incomplete, as there's not currently a way to view content boosted by your followed users without visiting their profiles manually.

kbin currently uses boosts to sort threads by top, rather than upvotes. Which might be what you were referring to there.

Writing this out now, I realize it might not actually be a difference worth mentioning while it doesn't add anything unique besides added complexity and Mastodon integration (which just goes back to microblogging being a thing on kbin which is already covered).

CSS

CSS stands for Cascading Style Sheets and is a language to describe the visual design of websites.

An older version of Reddit (old.reddit.com) allowed subreddits to specify their own custom CSS code which would be used when users visited those subreddits. They could completely transform the design of the site using that feature. Or they could hack in features specific to their subreddit. Many subreddits both big and small made use of that feature and are still using it even today.
Spoilers for example were done using links and custom CSS long before Reddit added their official spoilers.

Kbin takes the same approach as old.reddit. Magazines can specify their own custom CSS code to change kbin's appearance while visiting the magazine. Though I have only seen one magazine make use of that so far, so it's not nearly as widespread as on Reddit yet.

new comments

On kbin, there's a setting in the sidebar (the gear icon) to mark new comments in threads you've seen before (since turning on the feature). I think it defaults to off.

When turned on and visiting a thread, new comments since your last visit are marked with a yellow bottom left corner. This is a very recent addition and seems to only be clear enough with the Tokyo Night theme currently. On other themes the colored corner is very hard to see for me.

Flipboard stops tweeting, launches new podcast about decentralized social apps (techcrunch.com)

Social magazine app Flipboard had already committed to joining the "fediverse" -- the decentralized social web, which includes apps like Mastodon. Now, it’s doubling down on those ambitions with an announcement that it will stop tweeting while also launching a new podcast devoted to exploring the topic of decentralized social...

symfonystation, to random
@symfonystation@phpc.social avatar

Explore our article: You say you want a revolution: help the free, fair, and friendly Fediverse destroy Big Social. https://symfonystation.mobileatom.net/Fediverse :fediverse: :mastodon: #/kbin

Thinking on creating a guide on leaving Twitter etc. for creators, etc., some tips on what it should include? (kbin.social)

A lot of artists, etc. are reluctant to leave corporate social media like Twitter, due to fears over the Fediverse (usually spread by other people, that think Fediverse = Gab + some cryprobros + maybe Pawoo), or not willing to understand it....

ThatOneKirbyMain2568, to kbinMeta
@ThatOneKirbyMain2568@kbin.social avatar

Made a small update to my userstyle idkbin following the recent #kbin update. Colors the user follow & block buttons + some other fixes. #kbinmeta #kbinstyles #kbinMeta

Skavau, to kbinMeta

Would it be of interest for someone to set up an /m/abandonedcommunities or /m/findamod or even some /m/revivedcommunities magazine to act as a megaphone for revived communities of interest, or to bring attention to unused communities? I know there's abandoned list but it's effectively a big wall of communities.

#kbinmeta #kbinMeta

What are your thoughts on Microblogs vs threads? (kbin.social)

When I first joined Kbin I posted threads due to being a reddit refugee but have started posting microblogs as time went on. I have also noticed some magazines have more threads while others have more microblog posts. For example kbinmeta has more threads while the most active magazine I moderate has mostly microblogs.

daredevil, (edited )
@daredevil@kbin.social avatar

One of my favorite things about /kbin is that it utilizes threads and microblogs. In my experience thus far, users here seem rather shy. I don't hold it against anyone though, because I totally understand.

Federating content from the likes of Mastodon is very helpful for having discussions trickle in from the fediverse. I think it's also really helpful for establishing an ongoing daily discussion space so the thread feed isn't as cluttered. IMO, there's more potential beyond that, too (Think: drawing everyday for a month, photography-based posting/challenges while using tags for content organization, language-learning exercises, the list goes on...).The combination of threads with microblogs has shown me the power that lies behind content federation. As a result, /kbin is by far my favorite of the fediverse platforms so far.

I still have some minor issues with how it currently works. Currently, I believe the name of a magazine causes hashtags with the exact same string to federate content to that magazine. The magazine that matches the desired hashtag also takes priority, even when the hashtag isn't assigned in the magazine's settings. An issue with this is that if any subsequent magazines try to federate content using that hashtag, it won't be able to do so.

It seems as though microblogs can only federate content to either the magazine that matches the hashtag in question, or the magazine that uses the hashtag first. There's also an issue where a microblog that uses multiple hashtags will only federate content to the magazine with the first available tag. E.g. if someone writes an unused tag for the first, followed by #kbinmeta, then #fediverse third, the post would only go to the kbinmeta microblog section. It would be lovely for microblogs to be federated, or even mirrored across magazines (as in child comments/replies) that implement the same tag. Hopefully, this could also be done without adding excessive overhead to Ernest/the server. Perhaps even offer the ability to have a magazine choose to refuse federating tags that match the magazine's name.

There are also some minor issues with moderation federation, but I don't exactly want to specify here, because I'm worried it could be used maliciously.

That being said, I can't wait to see how /kbin will mature.

daredevil, (edited )
@daredevil@kbin.social avatar

Microblogs on /kbin are essentially short-form posts. There are times where microblogs revolve around a specific topic, but this is not always necessary. On /kbin, they are generally associated with keywords (hashtags) that allow a microblog to be sent to a magazine that targets/accepts the tag, which then appears in the microblog feed. However, on Mastodon/Twitter, you can simply write posts that get grouped with the posts of other users or your own previous posts without replying to a specific original post.

Writing microblogs and utilizing tagged keywords allows people to search for the information the writer deems fundamental to the topic they're writing about. This enhances discoverability and reduces noise, as you are able to quickly browse any and all posts that are specifically tagged with those keywords. Furthermore, microblogs may generally incorporate multiple identifying topics as you group together these keywords/tags.

For example, the @cats magazine will have an influx of posts on Saturdays from Mastodon instances which are tagged with . Writing microblogs in this way makes it so creating a thread every Saturday in @cats isn't necessary. This has a nice side effect of minimizing the need for megathreads that were found on Reddit.

Additionally, you can also search for (and click on) to review exercises that I have completed in the past. There are additional posts in the @learnjapanese magazine that would not include this information. By using this tag, you can access the posts that specifically pertain to my studies.

This is in contrast to /kbin threads, where the content of the thread is the centralizing topic of discussion as opposed to the keywords.

For example: our replies are centered around what the OP has asked instead of any keywords in the original post or subsequent replies. However, /kbin is more unique than typical forums, as we can the comments to achieve a similar functionality to microblogs. Honestly, I would like to see this feature be utilized more, but ç'est la vie.

To those genuinely interested in moderating (kbin.social)

@Ernest has pushed an update which allows users to request ownership/moderation of abandoned magazines. Ghost/abandoned magazines were fairly prevalent after the initial wave of hype due to users either squatting magazine names or becoming inactive for other reasons. Now is your chance to get involved, if you were waiting to do...

melroy,
@melroy@kbin.melroy.org avatar

Thanks for your feedback.

We do have code reviews in GitHub and discussions on Matrix. We updated the README that reflect our latest way of working. As stated in the comment section we are also working on it in PR: https://github.com/MbinOrg/mbin/pull/34. Feel free to comment on that.

ernest,
@ernest@kbin.social avatar

You see, I don't know how I would act now in hindsight. You have to take into consideration that, at the peak, hundreds of people willing to help appeared out of nowhere, people I didn't know at all. By nature, I am rather distrustful and approach new relationships cautiously - I really need a lot of time to get to know another person well. It's true that after some time, a certain structure began to take shape, but not everything is always as it seems at first glance - especially when so many strong personalities converge in one place. Perhaps it was a mistake that instead of addressing many things publicly, I tried to solve them in private conversations.

And you're right, anyone who knows me a bit knows that I have trouble asking for help. Sometimes, I take too much on myself, which is not good in the long run. I'm working on it. But this time was something more. I promised to take care of things, and under normal circumstances, it would probably be easy for me because I have some experience in resolving such situations. But these were not normal circumstances. I realized this too late. I was just overwhelmed by real life. So many problems collapsed on me that I could never have anticipated. These were the worst months of my entire life. I don't want to write too much about it or make excuses, but at some point, even getting out of bed or eating something became difficult. When I tried to get back to the project, the thought of the backlog and how many people I let down made me feel sick. That's why I'm really glad to be where I am now. I can only apologize to you and try to fix some mistakes. I need to do it at my own pace. I want to clean up the mess, find my rhythm, and then engage in broader communication with people. I'm still recovering on my own.

What I did was indeed a bit malicious, but I believe it was the only way to achieve the intended effect. The fact that I really like you all should not mean that I will be uncritical of your work. I don't want you to fully trust everything that comes from me - only in this way can we fully utilize the potential we have in developing the fediverse. Frontend errors are just a trivial matter; they can be quickly found and fixed. However, the situation is completely different when it comes to backend mechanics. Seemingly minor errors when I was developing karab.in made me undo them for weeks. With larger instances, there may not be a second chance. This is not a centralized system, you have to consider others above all. That's why I am so sensitive to it and have so many doubts about making changes.

It's not that I want to make things difficult for you. I really care about mbin developing in the right direction. I am curious about what the future will bring. I would like kbin to remain rather ascetic, subtle, and something that you need to learn and understand a bit, rather than having everything handed to you on a platter. Mbin can be a different face, with more features, bolder, and I know that you have many great ideas for it. A simple example is the labels for marking mods/admins/ops that you are currently working on - kbin has it marked in a subtle way with a faint left border outline - you can do it differently, and that's great. As someone very wise once said, "If it's not diverse, it's not the fediverse."

@melroy I am sure that this is just the beginning of our shared adventure. I hope you won't hold a grudge against me for long ;) Guys, I deeply regret that we met at this stage of my life, but as I say, all I can do is try to fix my mistakes. Thanks for everything!

unofficial_kbin_guide, to unofficial_kbin_guide

Updated the The Unofficial Guide to /kbin FAQ! Updated the FAQ to include how Mastodon users can interact with /kbin from Mastodon.
/kbin post
Updated FAQ

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